Hi Mauro, I've seen the game from Videogiocanda and the reply by the Lega member. I myself have a hard time understanding political violent activism of any sorts. I know many cases in which in my city, Turin, police was not allowed around communist "centri sociali" to patrol the zone and repel illegal drug sellers. Which are still illegal, even if many do them.
I believe that the game itself had some rather controversial points I strongly disagree with. First and foremost, the depiction of the police, which in quality of hand of the State and Law, has to obey orders, and is by definition neutral and above all factions, therefore should not in my opinion be depicted in a pig-like way, nor insulted in any way. Many of them have moderated point of views, many tend to right, many tend to left. When they wear a uniform they are however the mean through which law is imposed, and by fighting them, you fight the law and state, not the people. Second, I hope you realize that organizing unauthorized meetups is indeed a crime, and that there was the chance to peacefully and rightfully protest in another zone of the city in order to avoid conflict, and that that wouldn't have implied any allegation.
By fighting police members that are there to tell you you can't stay there because you did not get an authorization, you fight the law about unauthorized protests, rather than the fascist meetup.
Kudos to you for adding to the game the chance to protest the day before and the one to go to the other authorized spot, I played the game many times and those are the paths that satisfied me most when I went for them. Game design wise, that was the choice that made me appreciate this even though I do not agree with its view. Mind I do not support fascism in any way, but I believe that all avoidable acts of violence and disobedience to rightful laws perpetrated in the name of any flag are to be considered on the same level. This means that both an insult to police and an insult to Jews or LGBTQ+/any fascist sign should be sanctioned, or we'd have anarchy in one sense, dictatorship in the other.
This is my point of view however, but I do have a discourage about how rightful ideas are perpetrated in wrong and violent ways during this kind of battles.
Hey Elisa, for some reason I missed this comment and I'm answering it only now, 5 years later. First of all, thank you for your appreciation and the time you spent playing this game.
In the real world, this was not a story a violent political activism. We were beaten by the police but we did nothing violent. In the game, you can explore different possibilities, including strict respect of police orders or active violence. Obviously, the consequences of those choices in the game reflect my opinion of those tactics, and this is debatable but there's no way a game can be completely neutral - and it's not desirable, in my opinion.
About neutrality, I don't believe the police is neutral and has the function of enforcing the law. This is the way they advertise themselves, but my experience tells otherwise. The police defends the status quo, including, to some extent, fascists and racists. Actually, most cops and carabinieri in Italy are fascists and racists, and this is not by chance; there are exceptions, particulary in the lowest ranks, and I know some cases, but unfortunately they're in a minority.
I and Chiara did not depict the cops as pigs, but as dogs. It's the Fascists that were depicted as pigs. I leave it to the player any inference from this… er… "artistic" choice.
Organising unauthorised demonstrations in Italy is not a crime. The law is more nuanced: demonstrations are a constitutional right, but you are supposed to notify the police with a little advance. They can forbid it only for serious reasons. In this case, we notified them in September (for November). The police falsified the fax date and told us that the Fascists had asked the same square before us (in the trial it emerged that they did it the day after). In any case, we did not demonstrate in the forbidden square. The police attacked us in any case because we were in the way of the Fascist march.
I believe that we did right. You say that we should fight unjust rules about "unauthorised" demonstrations, instead of breaking those rules. But what we did is actually the only effective way we had to fight that wrongful enforcement of the rules.
If you don't mind my asking, what were the crimes that you were accused of?
Also, while Voltaire may or may not have said I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it , it is still a very noble in my opinion and I personally believe in that ideology as a way of life. If not for that fantastic ideology, then how would the communist, democratic, totalitarianist, fascist, and monarchy style governments exist?
If nothing else, then I can certainly say that I found the game to be an interesting look through the lens of the anti-fascist community .
The crimes I was accused of were of a non-violent nature: peacefully resisting the (illegal and violent) actions of the police officers, insulting (i.e. criticising) «political, administrative or judiciary bodies», organising an unauthorised demonstration. Most of the accusations have already fallen since the game was published, but a few are still pending, namely the insults against the impersonal «bodies» and the unauthorised demonstration.
I agree that in general freedom of expression should be protected, e.g. my freedom of expressing the idea that the police behaved in a very wrong way that night should be granted instead of trying to frame it as a crime. The same applies to my freedom of organising an Antifascist demonstration.
I disagree that all kinds of expression should be protected, for instance I would not allow any individual to bully weaker people with words and gestures. If a man sees a woman passing by and calls her a slut I would not consider that freedom of expression that ought to be defended. The same applies with using ethnic slurs against Jews, black people, gays etc.
Fascist slogans and rallies in paramilitary fashion are a form of psychological violence against minorities, are harmful to the society as a whole and they are always used to prepare and organise actual violence against real people. For this reason freedom of expression simply doesn't apply to them, as it doesn't apply to ISIS apologists or promoters of rape.
I hate it when people put political games on itch.io... but its freedom of speech.
It was difficult to tell exactly what political party this was viewed from. And there were Some (not a lot) things in the game that where historically incorrect. Which messed up my view while playing this game kind of making it confusing.
Otherwise I think the Look of the game was interested, didn't like the poly people to much because they looked weird lol but that's just MO.
I'm a strong conservative and I hate antifa, most of our party does. They just riot all the time, killing random people and hitting them with sticks. I will say, even the people on our "side" (conservatives/republicans) who go to the antifa riots to record them or fight back, are complete idiots half the time. I view from all angles so I say it, or try.
Games are "political" because everything is political. There are plenty of games made about different wars, like WWII, for instance, or ones that criticize certain philosophies, like the Bioshock series. Everything involves politics, in some view, some way or another, because politics involve people and their rights, lives, cultures, etc. You literally can't escape it, especially minorities who don't have a choice to since their existences are basically "politicized". This will always be a woefully naive and illogical point of view.
here is a good example of an un-politicized game just so you can see what I was talking about.
My little blacksmith shop.
has NO politics in it once so ever.
Compared to this game, it has 0% politics and this game is, totally political. You also act as if I have a problem with this and I don't, I stated as clear as day its your 1st amendment right to have the freedom of speech and expression. This game being just that. Not hating on the game or anything I just gave a review.
I asked which things were historically incorrect as you claimed. Have you got an answer please? I can fix any factual mistake you can point out. Thank you.
LOL, "killing random people". Yeah, that's what antifa does... Sometimes I wonder if right-wing people even try to connect to reality or just comfortably embrace the web of propaganda and lies around them.
as I said in my writing I try to see through my own eyes, and make my own judgment and opinion, and do background research.
I presume you "support" antifa since your defending them there, and I do stand by the fact that they hurt / kill innocent people half the time at least.
They call most of us conservatives white supremacists, then hurt them even if they aren't.
I don't think I heard people do that fake quote in person, thankfully it has been only the internet... But people here in Germany often find other ways to demonstrate how little they wish to learn from history and act as if the fascists were beat by civil conversation. Seems to be the same everywhere, really.
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Josef Stalin would be proud if he were alive.
Hardly so. I'm a lifelong Trotskyist.
Good little game comrade! Very interesting to learn about the events that took place. Keep bashing fascists! <3
Thank you! We will, we definitely will.
This game has become part of a political controversy in Pavia in October 2018. This article in Italian on Vice Motherboard gives a detailed explanation of the developing story: https://motherboard.vice.com/it/article/a3paka/festival-videogiochi-pavia-videog...
Hi Mauro, I've seen the game from Videogiocanda and the reply by the Lega member.
I myself have a hard time understanding political violent activism of any sorts.
I know many cases in which in my city, Turin, police was not allowed around communist "centri sociali" to patrol the zone and repel illegal drug sellers. Which are still illegal, even if many do them.
I believe that the game itself had some rather controversial points I strongly disagree with.
First and foremost, the depiction of the police, which in quality of hand of the State and Law, has to obey orders, and is by definition neutral and above all factions, therefore should not in my opinion be depicted in a pig-like way, nor insulted in any way. Many of them have moderated point of views, many tend to right, many tend to left. When they wear a uniform they are however the mean through which law is imposed, and by fighting them, you fight the law and state, not the people.
Second, I hope you realize that organizing unauthorized meetups is indeed a crime, and that there was the chance to peacefully and rightfully protest in another zone of the city in order to avoid conflict, and that that wouldn't have implied any allegation.
By fighting police members that are there to tell you you can't stay there because you did not get an authorization, you fight the law about unauthorized protests, rather than the fascist meetup.
Kudos to you for adding to the game the chance to protest the day before and the one to go to the other authorized spot, I played the game many times and those are the paths that satisfied me most when I went for them.
Game design wise, that was the choice that made me appreciate this even though I do not agree with its view. Mind I do not support fascism in any way, but I believe that all avoidable acts of violence and disobedience to rightful laws perpetrated in the name of any flag are to be considered on the same level.
This means that both an insult to police and an insult to Jews or LGBTQ+/any fascist sign should be sanctioned, or we'd have anarchy in one sense, dictatorship in the other.
This is my point of view however, but I do have a discourage about how rightful ideas are perpetrated in wrong and violent ways during this kind of battles.
Hey Elisa, for some reason I missed this comment and I'm answering it only now, 5 years later. First of all, thank you for your appreciation and the time you spent playing this game.
In the real world, this was not a story a violent political activism. We were beaten by the police but we did nothing violent. In the game, you can explore different possibilities, including strict respect of police orders or active violence. Obviously, the consequences of those choices in the game reflect my opinion of those tactics, and this is debatable but there's no way a game can be completely neutral - and it's not desirable, in my opinion.
About neutrality, I don't believe the police is neutral and has the function of enforcing the law. This is the way they advertise themselves, but my experience tells otherwise. The police defends the status quo, including, to some extent, fascists and racists. Actually, most cops and carabinieri in Italy are fascists and racists, and this is not by chance; there are exceptions, particulary in the lowest ranks, and I know some cases, but unfortunately they're in a minority.
I and Chiara did not depict the cops as pigs, but as dogs. It's the Fascists that were depicted as pigs. I leave it to the player any inference from this… er… "artistic" choice.
Organising unauthorised demonstrations in Italy is not a crime. The law is more nuanced: demonstrations are a constitutional right, but you are supposed to notify the police with a little advance. They can forbid it only for serious reasons. In this case, we notified them in September (for November). The police falsified the fax date and told us that the Fascists had asked the same square before us (in the trial it emerged that they did it the day after). In any case, we did not demonstrate in the forbidden square. The police attacked us in any case because we were in the way of the Fascist march.
I believe that we did right. You say that we should fight unjust rules about "unauthorised" demonstrations, instead of breaking those rules. But what we did is actually the only effective way we had to fight that wrongful enforcement of the rules.
These questions are all post playthrough
If you don't mind my asking, what were the crimes that you were accused of?
Also, while Voltaire may or may not have said I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it , it is still a very noble in my opinion and I personally believe in that ideology as a way of life. If not for that fantastic ideology, then how would the communist, democratic, totalitarianist, fascist, and monarchy style governments exist?
If nothing else, then I can certainly say that I found the game to be an interesting look through the lens of the anti-fascist community .
Hello!
The crimes I was accused of were of a non-violent nature: peacefully resisting the (illegal and violent) actions of the police officers, insulting (i.e. criticising) «political, administrative or judiciary bodies», organising an unauthorised demonstration. Most of the accusations have already fallen since the game was published, but a few are still pending, namely the insults against the impersonal «bodies» and the unauthorised demonstration.
I agree that in general freedom of expression should be protected, e.g. my freedom of expressing the idea that the police behaved in a very wrong way that night should be granted instead of trying to frame it as a crime. The same applies to my freedom of organising an Antifascist demonstration.
I disagree that all kinds of expression should be protected, for instance I would not allow any individual to bully weaker people with words and gestures. If a man sees a woman passing by and calls her a slut I would not consider that freedom of expression that ought to be defended. The same applies with using ethnic slurs against Jews, black people, gays etc.
Fascist slogans and rallies in paramilitary fashion are a form of psychological violence against minorities, are harmful to the society as a whole and they are always used to prepare and organise actual violence against real people. For this reason freedom of expression simply doesn't apply to them, as it doesn't apply to ISIS apologists or promoters of rape.
"peaceful but resolute attempt at stopping a Fascist march through the city centre on November 5th, 2016."
I have a some quick questions,
how did they stop the facist march?
what made it a facist march?
how were your actions considered peaceful, and what were those actions you took?
Play the game and find it out instead of asking silly questions.
If you cant answer just say so, I want you to tell me the answer to those questions.
You know what they will prove if you answer them truthfully I presume that's why you refuse to answer them.
You are not supposed to review a game without playing it and if you don't know these things you simply didn't play it. Now stop it, please.
I hate it when people put political games on itch.io... but its freedom of speech.
It was difficult to tell exactly what political party this was viewed from. And there were Some (not a lot) things in the game that where historically incorrect. Which messed up my view while playing this game kind of making it confusing.
Otherwise I think the Look of the game was interested, didn't like the poly people to much because they looked weird lol but that's just MO.
I'm a strong conservative and I hate antifa, most of our party does. They just riot all the time, killing random people and hitting them with sticks. I will say, even the people on our "side" (conservatives/republicans) who go to the antifa riots to record them or fight back, are complete idiots half the time. I view from all angles so I say it, or try.
Anyway their is my little review thing.
Thanks,
Nate
Games are "political" because everything is political. There are plenty of games made about different wars, like WWII, for instance, or ones that criticize certain philosophies, like the Bioshock series. Everything involves politics, in some view, some way or another, because politics involve people and their rights, lives, cultures, etc. You literally can't escape it, especially minorities who don't have a choice to since their existences are basically "politicized". This will always be a woefully naive and illogical point of view.
here is a good example of an un-politicized game just so you can see what I was talking about.
My little blacksmith shop.
has NO politics in it once so ever.
Compared to this game, it has 0% politics and this game is, totally political. You also act as if I have a problem with this and I don't, I stated as clear as day its your 1st amendment right to have the freedom of speech and expression. This game being just that. Not hating on the game or anything I just gave a review.
Vincent's reply nails it. :-)
BTW, I didn't know this game, let's link it: https://dasius.itch.io/my-little-blacksmith-shop
Which things were "historically incorrect"? I was there.
I asked which things were historically incorrect as you claimed. Have you got an answer please? I can fix any factual mistake you can point out. Thank you.
LOL, "killing random people". Yeah, that's what antifa does... Sometimes I wonder if right-wing people even try to connect to reality or just comfortably embrace the web of propaganda and lies around them.
Hi all ice,
as I said in my writing I try to see through my own eyes, and make my own judgment and opinion, and do background research.
I presume you "support" antifa since your defending them there, and I do stand by the fact that they hurt / kill innocent people half the time at least.
They call most of us conservatives white supremacists, then hurt them even if they aren't.
Seems since this factual (the one above this comment) reply got -5 dislikes or down votes I suspect the game was from a Very liberal POV.
Freedom of speech is not supported here, well noted!
Nice little game, I especially enjoyed your Voltaire!
Thank you!
Is this fake Voltaire quote a thing also where you live? We are always getting that rubbish here in Italy...
I don't think I heard people do that fake quote in person, thankfully it has been only the internet... But people here in Germany often find other ways to demonstrate how little they wish to learn from history and act as if the fascists were beat by civil conversation. Seems to be the same everywhere, really.
get this propaganda off this website. fucking terrible
LOL. Why?